DescriptiZena

00:00:14.160 - 00:00:16.000

And Mark is coming to us from......

Mark

00:00:17.760 - 00:01:36.120

San Diego airport. I was just at Distributech and.

Which is like a crazy grid power conference and exhibition and you know, trade show and meeting of the minds and yeah, it's, it's. It was actually very humbling to be honest.

You know, I just, when I thought like, you know, I know a lot about energy and I'm just, this is my jam and you know, I'm going through the world as a unique energy nerd. You go to a conference like this that has 20,000 people really like deeply technically nerding out on grid technology.

And it's a crazy time for the grid, right, because of the, all the talk around data centers and you know, like the, the breaking of the grid and everybody's been, you know, privy to a blackout or a brownout or curtailment. Right.

Where you get a text message saying like hey, you know, so you can hear that the airport, it's like, it's like hey, turn your air conditioning down or hey, turn your, turn your EV charging off because you're going to get charged. So. Yeah, yeah.

Zena

00:01:36.120 - 00:02:13.690

Anyway, yeah, it's this thing that for a lot of just you know, normal people who you know, are, have work in other industries or whatever, we don't really see or interact with. We, we just plug. You know, it's very passive. Right.

But when you the curtain back and you really step into it, like you have, it's really eye openening. I find that stuff fascinating even though I personally don't know it. You know, I a ton about it. I know like just a slice.

But being immersed in situations like that where you've got all of these experts all around, doesn't that just like make your brain tingle?

Speaker A

00:02:14.490 - 00:02:58.420

Yeah, well, it actually made me like a little bit scared too because I was like, oh, you know, I'm, I'm exploring my next business opportunities and ventures and you know, and I, one of them was like, oh, maybe, you know, maybe go get into some grid technology manufacturing or something like that. And I was like, like, oh, like, like this is a big game. And you know, like it's even the small companies, you know, they're building big things.

Yeah, so. So yeah, it's just, I mean it's just there's so much huge technology because you can't software your way out of the power grid.

Zena

00:02:58.740 - 00:02:59.060

Right.

Speaker A

00:02:59.060 - 00:03:18.080

You know what I mean? Like, it's like we, we, we get all wrapped up in ChatGPT and AI and software and our computers and we sit all day and.

But all of this is there's a backbone of just like copper cables, you know, substations, huge transformers, and the infrastructure.

Zena

00:03:18.640 - 00:03:24.800

That we drive by on highways and we don't even notice. Right. It's stuff like that. Yeah.

Speaker A

00:03:25.040 - 00:03:32.880

Yeah. Well, we only notice when, when it's out, when the car's out. And then we complain that it's out for like a few hours or a day.

Zena

00:03:33.120 - 00:03:34.720

I know. Yeah.

Speaker A

00:03:34.720 - 00:03:35.040

Right?

Zena

00:03:35.440 - 00:03:39.200

Yeah. 100. Okay. So I'm gonna pick up on one thing you said.

Speaker A

00:03:39.780 - 00:03:40.100

Yeah.

Zena

00:03:41.380 - 00:03:50.580

You're considering, you know, like starting, you know, another business or something, and I'm just want to like, double click on that. Look. You've started a business before.

Speaker A

00:03:51.460 - 00:03:52.020

Yep.

Zena

00:03:53.380 - 00:04:04.340

Multiple. Okay, so you're pro. I, you know, I also started a company and some or, you know, organizations in the last, you know, a few, you know, couple.

Speaker A

00:04:04.740 - 00:04:05.460

I don't know. Yeah.

Zena

00:04:05.460 - 00:04:06.740

You've 12 years. Whatever.

Speaker A

00:04:06.740 - 00:04:10.780

A bunch, A bunch of societies and organizations as well. Yeah.

Zena

00:04:11.020 - 00:04:36.220

So I'm curious, just as you're thinking through this again, in this time of your life, like, what's different for you? Like, what. How are you thinking of this differently? I. I'm.

I'm so curious because it's part of like, you know, the evolution of like, you learn, you iterate, you fail, you, you know, iterate. You know what I mean? Like, but what's. How are you thinking of it this time around?

Speaker A

00:04:37.220 - 00:04:37.860

Oh, wow.

Zena

00:04:39.540 - 00:04:40.980

Not to put you on the spot.

Speaker A

00:04:41.140 - 00:05:54.970

Early morning question as I am at the airport here now. Wow, there's so many angles. Actually. Yeah, good question. I guess the first one is just like, you know, I feel like I'm just getting better.

I mean, so I did an MBA in 2013 and like two businesses later, I feel like I actually have like multiple MBAs now. Or, you know, like, I, I have like the, the deep, deep learnings.

Because you only learn by doing and by sitting at the table and by, you know, getting punched in the face a bunch of times. Yeah. You know, the other thing too is just a greater self awareness. We've talked about it on the podcast, of course, and. Right. It's.

It's, you know, a lot of times we walk through life or we don't react. React in a way that we were not aware because it's just an automatic reaction and then that causes a chain reaction with the other folks in the room.

And I think that that's been a big one for me.

You know, I've done a tremendous amount of like, personal development and therapy and coaching and like, really looking at my patterns and understanding that. So I'd say that's, that's a big one, you know, but also like this, the network, right?

Zena

00:05:55.250 - 00:05:55.530

Yeah.

Speaker A

00:05:55.530 - 00:06:21.690

They getting out there and proving by, by doing again, right? It's, it's all of these, you know, it's not fake stuff, right? You, you can't do that. You know that you can't. Again, there's no.

There, there are, there are charlatans out there that, that do go through these exercises of creating businesses or ideas and then, you know, everybody's had those stories, right, of, you know, where they take the money and they leave or they, they, it's not a real business or.

Zena

00:06:21.690 - 00:06:31.870

Whatever, or like wild, you know, investment. And you're like, wow. And then you. Yeah, we work and then it fails, you know, so.

Speaker A

00:06:32.590 - 00:07:20.310

Right. So I think that that's been a big part of it. It's just like learning the skills to get out there and to do it again.

Now the question is, is do I have the emotional and physical and financial bandwidth right. To do it again or like, does that.

So it's more about, I think it's more about the path of like, okay, is the opportunity good enough that I'm going to put the next five to ten years of my life on, right? And that's, and that's kind of the issue.

Or do I join a really amazing team, right, that's already in flow and jump on and then lead that, lead to that instead of being the one who's like, this is my idea. This is what we're going to do, right?

Zena

00:07:20.870 - 00:08:09.010

Yeah, yeah, totally.

I think there is, you know, the awareness of what is, you know, an entrepreneurial mindset and skill set versus, you know, then acting on those and starting, literally starting a business, starting a legal entity and taking your idea forward because you can have those mindsets and skill sets within another organization and really, you know, leverage those to make that organization even better as well. Your team better, all of that.

And I think that's a, that's a good distinction because just because you have those kinds of, you know, skills and tendencies and you know, the initiative and drive, you know, does it mean you have to start a company yourself?

Speaker A

00:08:09.810 - 00:08:30.650

Exactly. And if I think it's the startup fallacy that I, that I refer to quite a bit, right. It's every.

There's this cultural thing, especially here in North America. It's like, well, everybody's an entrepreneur. Everybody can go and do it. It's easy to do it, right?

It's easy to raise your first 50,000 bucks or get you some friends and family or Everybody's like, yeah, you go do it.

Zena

00:08:30.809 - 00:08:31.249

Yeah.

Speaker A

00:08:31.249 - 00:09:09.490

But. But what you don't see is the trail of. Of broken dreams. Finances, families, bank accounts that are. That are done. Like, you just.

There's so many entrepreneurs and people that have, like, literally put it all on the line and then lost it all because, you know, they were told they could do one thing, and then by the time they got through it or to midpoint, right, it's hard. It's freaking hard. And there's no money, and people are like, well, sorry. Sorry, bud. Yeah, like. Like, good try.

And you're like, but it's still happening. It's still going. We. This is like, I just need some support. I need some coaching. I need some mentorship. I need money and, you know, whatever it is.

Zena

00:09:09.570 - 00:10:20.790

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 100%.

I mean, honestly, like, I think in my experience, like, you know, entrepreneurship, actually, you know, I'd worked at big companies before starting a business of my own, and it is one of the, like, it is the hardest thing I've done. Like, you know, it is, like you said, it strains people in ways beyond just the business component.

You know, the family dynamic, the, you know, you know, caring for your people and employees and, you know, these sorts of things.

Like, this is an additional, like, thing to think about in a different way than you would have at an organization where you are a part of a larger, you know, team and infrastructure and all of this, you know, financially, right.

Thinking about, you know, how you're approaching the business, how you want to, you know, keep costs down but do quality work and how do you invest in overhead functions that, you know, are taking away from, you know, other things, like, you know what I mean? Like, this is.

Speaker A

00:10:20.790 - 00:10:27.550

This is. Then they still have your physical, Physical, emotional and mental health on top of that.

Zena

00:10:27.710 - 00:11:03.270

On top of that. Exactly. And I know you and I have talked about things like that over the years where it's like, how are you dealing with this?

How are you, you know, thinking about this?

And this is what I've learned so much from you and your most recent, you know, last couple years, like, your journey of self, you know, looking inward, self improvement, you know, all of these things that you're. You're really taking care of yourself. I.

It's really caused me to, you know, like, pick up and think about what I'm doing, you know, So I. I do appreciate that. Thank you for modeling.

Speaker A

00:11:03.990 - 00:11:40.430

Thank you. But. But, you know, it's interesting is to come to these kind of conferences and as well as I was at the Clean Tech Forum last week.

So I'm kind of on the, the February, you know, conference run.

But it's that there's, but there are so many amazing entrepreneurs with stories and they've done it multiple times and you know, like it doesn't get easier necessarily, but it definitely, you learn the tricks of the trade and I think that's, that's the part that, that's super important. Right. Your first one may not succeed, but you know, your second one might. And if your second one might not, then your third one might.

Zena

00:11:40.990 - 00:11:41.470

Yeah.

Speaker A

00:11:41.470 - 00:11:56.190

Question is, is back to your point about getting just a job? I mean maybe sometimes it's just like, I mean I know my close friends and family are like, just get a job.

Stock with stock options that just like go up in price.

Zena

00:11:57.720 - 00:12:03.280

I mean this is the stuff that sounds good just when you say it. But it's, you know, there's more to.

Speaker A

00:12:03.280 - 00:12:06.520

It than just a good job. Just get a real job. Yeah. What?

Zena

00:12:06.920 - 00:12:08.160

Yeah, I don't know.

Speaker A

00:12:08.160 - 00:12:09.720

I've only had a real job once.

Zena

00:12:10.840 - 00:12:21.640

I, I had a, like, I don't. Okay, real job. I'm gonna take issue with that one. But just like I've had the kind of traditional like corporate job. I've, I've had that. Right?

Speaker A

00:12:21.640 - 00:12:22.920

Yeah, so I've had that once.

Zena

00:12:24.290 - 00:12:26.850

So. I mean I did too.

Speaker A

00:12:27.010 - 00:12:28.450

I did once or five years.

Zena

00:12:28.530 - 00:13:19.510

I think about it a lot though. I do. I'm like wonder what it would be like. I wonder how I would, you know, you know, be excited in a. And you know, in a situation like that.

Sometimes it's a tree. Intriguing. I'm not gonna lie. And then you know, like.

But it's, it's interesting because sometimes I think in that scenario would I be able to do the things that I can do kind of, you know, having my own company autonomy, ability to, you know, speak when I want to speak and you know, do, do these kind do things that you know, might be constrained in other corporate scenarios? I, I don't know the answer, but I'm curious about it.

Speaker A

00:13:20.070 - 00:13:42.550

I, I think a lot about it too and I think that there's a lot more open mindedness now in organizations especially the Intrapreneur, you know, that, that mindset or there's a lot of corporate innovation arms. Right. As well now that, that, that either take new tech and bring it in or take tech and spin it out.

Zena

00:13:43.340 - 00:13:43.540

Yeah.

Speaker A

00:13:43.540 - 00:14:02.380

Right. So I, I do think there are examples of, of that, you know, in entertainment. We're seeing it now too. Right. Like companies like Netflix for example.

Right. They're, they're being pushed to be super creative and supporting all types of initiatives. Right.

Like there was that Rocky Mountain Institute initiative.

Zena

00:14:02.860 - 00:14:05.740

Oh, the Clean Power initiative.

Speaker A

00:14:05.980 - 00:14:07.580

Yeah, something like that. Where.

Zena

00:14:09.670 - 00:14:10.830

Collaboration. Which.

Speaker A

00:14:10.830 - 00:14:12.630

Yeah, and Rocky Mountain Institute.

Zena

00:14:12.950 - 00:14:13.430

Yeah.

Speaker A

00:14:13.510 - 00:15:02.130

You know, like there's like, like those are big corporations that are trying to, you know, figure out how to be more nimble. And so I don't know, I, I think, I think we're seeing a lot of that, you know, even here at this, this like huge show Distributech.

The industry, the, the utility industry has been around for over 100 years and it's been very, very, very, very conservative. It's a very conservative industry. But they're now being forced to change and evolve and, and break things and grow.

And you know, the data center thing and the power needs are just all pushing the limits. And I'm actually, I got, I did about four interviews here on the floor. So this will be fun to hear from them.

A little bit different, but it'll be fun to hear from them. So.

Zena

00:15:02.130 - 00:15:03.490

Good little teaser for.

Speaker A

00:15:03.650 - 00:15:04.210

Yeah.

Zena

00:15:05.090 - 00:15:08.130

For the next, next episode, I guess.

Speaker A

00:15:08.610 - 00:15:09.090

Yeah.

Zena

00:15:09.810 - 00:16:13.910

No, that's interesting. That's interesting. That is.

Okay, so you're, you're making me think like, you know, we have said, and I think we, you know, can agree, like the film and TV industry has also been conservative in a lot of ways with, you know, how they've approached filmmaking and you know, speaking out, gatekeeping, you know, in certain ways controlling the narrative. You know, like there's a lot of, of, you know, conservative elements in that.

And, and if we look to other industries for examples, maybe, you know, utilities is, is a while an odd, you know, maybe model to look to just in the sense of how they're shifting their approach in being more innovative and creative from a more conservative approach to a more what, what would you call it? More innovative, nimble approach.

Speaker A

00:16:14.870 - 00:17:59.830

Yeah, I mean, I think. Yeah. I mean it's so funny though for such a liberal type of industry, right. The film industry, for how conservative it actually is or kg.

But for example, I mean you've got folks like director Brent Hodge, right. Which we've got to get him on here again. I don't know. Have we ever had him on here? No, not on, no, it was, it was, it was on Real Green.

All right, yeah, let's. Yeah, we gotta get him. But like, for example, he, you know, he, he had an Adam Pauley documentary which is really funny in hbo and he, they did it.

It was like a one day like production and it was really, really Creative. And he captured Adam Pauley doing his stand up routine. And then they did the whole thing, packaged it up, and HBO was like, yeah, we'll take it.

And that's very unique because usually, usually they want to have their say in it and then you pitch the idea and then you go and you do it. Right. So even that there's a shift is innovative. And they're like, yep. Because they're like, talent, young talent, let's go.

Right, So I think we're seeing it at the end of the day though, good shit still floats to the top and. Right.

And so I think that that's the other thing too is we've just created so much garbage out there that, that people are still yearning for a good, real connection to, you know, a human connection. And that will speak louder than some corporate nonsense. At least that's my take on it.

Zena

00:17:59.990 - 00:18:25.450

Yeah, good point, good point.

Well, I mean, I guess interesting to, you know, keep tabs on, you know, what's going on in other industries and also, like, find those innovators within, you know, entertainment as well as we've been trying to do. I think, you know, in the course of this little podcast project. But, you know, I'm going to reach.

Speaker A

00:18:25.450 - 00:18:27.250

Out to Haji right after this.

Zena

00:18:27.410 - 00:19:11.830

Yeah, do that, do that. That would be cool.

But I think, you know, also the point is that at least some takeaways for me just in this little conversation is, you know, it's, it's a lot about awareness, self awareness, emotional awareness, you know, in how people, how, how you're working, whether it's, you know, an entrepreneurial setting or within a larger company, there's a lot of that. It's probably the core piece of all of this.

And interestingly for you, as you're kind of thinking through your next moves, you know, and how that looks in terms of, you know, your entrepreneurial journey.

Speaker A

00:19:14.630 - 00:19:46.700

Yeah, it's, it's humbling.

Like, I'll say, like, I feel, you know, I don't know, you probably feel the same way, but it's like, I just feel really, really lucky to be able to have the resources and the health and the time to do this. Right? To do this. Because it's not everybody to, to, to do the entrepreneurial journey and to do this stuff, it's not everybody that can do this.

Like, you know, if you had to like, just barely, barely scrape by and try to like, you know, just keep things from falling all apart, like, you're not gonna go out and start Green Spark Group.

Zena

00:19:47.020 - 00:19:47.900

Yeah, right.

Speaker A

00:19:47.980 - 00:20:44.660

I mean, you've got incredible family supporting this and supporting you and. Right. What? For better, for worse. And then it's like. Right. But you know, that's, it's not possible.

Like, I was talking to a longtime entrepreneur last night at, at a networking event and we were talking about this actually, and he said, you know, it was, it was his, his partner, his wife who had to always remind him to come back to the family, you know, because again, he gets so wrapped up in your work and he's like, like, she saved like their, their, their, their family basically, because she always was like, you need to get back here now and drop all that shit. And, you know, there's a family right now. These kids are always grown up and so on. They're still, still together.

But I thought that was a really interesting thing. Right. It's like, it's a good reminder, like, there was a. Yeah. I mean, can doing entrepreneurship can be toxic for your life?

Zena

00:20:45.300 - 00:20:52.260

It is such. Yes. You know what? Like, I mean, hits home a lot. I mean, you met my husband.

Speaker A

00:20:52.420 - 00:20:52.900

Yeah.

Zena

00:20:52.900 - 00:21:00.180

And you know, he is solid. Solid and has.

Speaker A

00:21:00.180 - 00:21:01.780

Yeah. Rich. Yeah.

Zena

00:21:01.780 - 00:21:13.980

Super supportive and, and these sorts of things.

But I'm not gonna lie, it has been stressful at times and he's been, you know, he's reminded me of like, you know, let's, you know, what are you doing?

Speaker A

00:21:14.380 - 00:21:16.380

Let's think about this. Stop working.

Zena

00:21:16.620 - 00:21:58.750

Yeah, I know, I know. And like traveling and stuff.

Like, you know, this is where like, you know, for, you know, leaders of companies, founders, you know, you gotta be, you know, put yourself out there. Right. You, you have to network a lot too. You have to, you know, be available and things like this.

And, and it does take a toll and we have to be mindful. And so anyway, I get a reminder of that and I appreciate it too, because you're right. We can get wrapped up in, in work and whatnot. So anyway.

Speaker A

00:21:58.910 - 00:22:15.870

Yeah, well. And here we are. Yeah, good chat. I mean, this is, this is just something.

This is something that's just something we, you know, I'm glad we got to do this and yeah, we'll do a little bit more. Just chatting about different topics and different things. Right. Just.

Zena

00:22:17.870 - 00:22:21.390

Interesting, though, to hear a bit about your conferencing as well. So.

Speaker A

00:22:21.750 - 00:22:29.350

Yeah, well, I'm out there. I am out there. I believe in rock and roll and it's going to happen. The universe is working in my favor.

Zena

00:22:29.590 - 00:22:36.390

Yeah. Yeah. Well, good for you. Good for you. Thanks for the chat and we'll catch up.

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